SHOW NOTES
What a treat it was to talk with Jasmin Shah for this latest episode of the Creative + Moneywise podcast!

When the pandemic hit last year, she hightailed it from Morocco, where she’d been photographing, to Chicago, the city she’d left a year earlier to try life as a global nomad photographer. She lost all her work and felt nervous about the pandemic but needed to photograph. So, she walked around the empty streets of Chicago, safely photographing and interviewing people she saw. This blossomed into her “Reintroducing America” project, where she photographs people all across the United States while living in her tricked out van Dory, named after photographer Dorothea Lange.

Jasmin Shah is a photographer from Wisconsin currently criss-crossing the United States while photographing for various clients.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE
Jasmin Shah’s website
Jasmin Shah’s Instagram
Reintroducing America website
Reintroducing America’s Instagram

MUSIC CREDITS
Cinematic Orchestra Cello Loop by Wanderexplore
Happy Upbeat Cello by Audiokraken
Holding Steady by Sound of Picture
Perspectives by Kevin MacLeod with a Creative Commons License
Hot Pink by Sound of Picture
Carry On by Sound of Picture
Keep Dancing by Sound of Picture
Arp and Piano Beat by Sound of Picture

FULL TRANSCRIPT from 01:02

Laura

Hi, Jasmin. Welcome to the show.

Jasmin

Hi, Laura. How are you? Thank you for having me.

Laura

I’m good. Thank you so much for taking time to talk with me now. I’m very curious. Where are you today?

Jasmin

I am sitting in my van, which I live in. Her name is Dory after Dorothea Lange. I am in my friend’s driveway in Portland and it’s a really great spot. And that really matters when you live in a van. So…

Laura

Cause you probably have better wifi there than in other places you’ve parked like national parks. Right?

Jasmin

Right. Well, I have wifi, which is something that doesn’t happen really, most places that I am. So this is ideal and it’s quiet and it’s level. You have to be parked on level spot or your whole entire life is just on a slant. And it’s a little disconcerting after a little bit.

Laura

So you are living this van life, which I know has become kind of a thing in the United during the pandemic. How did you, an international photographer, start living a van life in the United States?

Jasmin

Okay. Well, this was never my intention. But you know, last thing last year, things changed everything. I was living in Chicago working for about 18 years as a freelance photographer. Things were going pretty well. I had a bunch of clients. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I was traveling a bunch and I realized that I often would get back and want to…. I just wanted to still be out traveling around. I just feel really engaged when I’m out learning and meeting people and, and just out traveling the world.

So in June of 2019, I sold most everything I owned. Or, spring of 2019. And then in June of 2019, I left the place I’d been — my apartment in Chicago — and just set out with a suitcase and my camera, backpack and became an international nomad. Well, I had one client, Operation Smile. They’re a nonprofit that fixes cleft lips and palates for kids. They’ve been a really great client that kind of sent me all over the world. So it was kind of banking on them having stuff for me and I could just go from shoot to shoot and then live anywhere in the world. It was a little rough to start. There isn’t as much work as I had hoped. I had been actually doing more stuff for them when I was in Chicago. And then all of a sudden they just had a dip.

So, I was a little worried. And then I started doing some other stuff. I started photographing climate scientists out doing work in field expeditions. I did that in Peru, in New Zealand. And I was starting to really love that. And then come to the beginning of 2020, I had been in New Zealand and then I was going to a shoot in Morocco and I had things booked for the spring. I had something in London coming up after like at the end of March 2020. And then I had something and I think it was going to be in Germany in June. And I had some work in Chicago I was going to go back for. Like, things were finally really, really locking into place. And I was so excited.

And then I was in Morocco in March of 2020. And we all know what happened. I was there as everything started to crumble. The European travel ban went into effect when I was there. And I thought I was going to be able to just go to, I had a place booked in Tunisia that I wanted to go to. And I was just like, well, I’ll just go there and kind of figure out the plan. Like the upcoming shoots were starting to cancel and so I knew what was happening. But I just wasn’t ready to come back to the states because I didn’t have a place to go. And then I was in the Casablanca airport and I found out that Tunisia closed their borders. And I had to just start running around and run out through the customs, like had my exit stamp annulled and just, I realized I just need to get back to the states.

And I flew back to Chicago and then I just was there and I didn’t know what to do. I went to my brother’s for a little bit, but I was really self-conscious about potentially having COVID and, you know, infecting him. And I ended up getting to stay in Chicago at my friend’s place while they were at their other home. I asked them if I could stay for a week or two while I figured things out. And I ended up staying for three and a half months. Yeah, because I had, I don’t have a home. That was the whole point of my nomadic existence, which is the exact opposite thing for COVID, is stay at home orders.

So I was really like out of sorts. It was really strange to be in Chicago, but not be in my own space. I was freaked out. I was in my friend’s place. It was a beautiful place. I was, it’s actually much nicer than anything I will probably ever have on my own. I didn’t know what to do. You know, it was so strange. It was, everything was so empty. And I went for a walk the first day of Chicago’s shelter in place order and I took my camera and I, and I was walking around and there was just like, it was like a ghost town. And I’d never seen my city like that.

I know a lot of photographers were out shooting the emptiness, but  don’t like emptiness. I like people. I want to photograph people. That’s the only thing that really interests me. And so it was just really kind of sad for so many reasons like everyone was. But also like, I didn’t know how to create out of emptiness.

And so I started, I’d seen some project about quarantine portraits. And so then I just kind of started thinking about that and doing my own version in Chicago. I just started walking around Chicago. Sometimes I set some up and, but more often than not, I just, if I saw someone out on their front porch or in their yard, I would yell to them from a safe COVID safe distance and ask if I could chat with them and get their portrait and just share in a moment and I did that, I mean, to the point by the end, I started to get so bold. I was yelling into people’s windows.

Laura

Jasmin, really?

Jasmin

Yeah. Well that was, that person was playing their French horn in the window. And I had grown up playing flute. And so I kind of…. If you’re playing right next to an open window, you’re, you’re engaging with the outside world. So I thought it was…

Laura

Yeah, you want someone to say something.

Jasmin

Yeah, yeah. So I thought that was, he was a little bit startled, but then, you know, we we had a great moment and it was a great portrait.

Laura

So I have a question about this. So is it that you were actually feeling creative and that’s what pushed you to go outside? Or was it that you felt like the creativity is being drained out of me right now and I need to go out and just do something? Or was it something in between those two?

Jasmin

I was having a panic. Like, you know, I was just, all of my work was going away. I didn’t know what I was going to be doing. And I was like, my response was to go out and create. My way of dealing emotionally with the pandemic and like that was to create and to engage with people.

Laura

Because of the pandemic or just because you were nervous to talk to people? Cause it doesn’t seem like you’re nervous about talking to people.

Jasmin

I was nervous about the pandemic. It was so unknown. I mean, I didn’t know where I was going to be living, you know, I didn’t know when I would have to leave the place in Chicago, what I was going to do. I didn’t know what work would come back. Because most of my clients were international that was obviously not going to happen. And in Chicago, most of my stuff was educational-based which again, that wasn’t happening. So both of the things that I had kind of banked on and done were, were gone, um…

Laura

Well, this became a series with a name, like a whole project that you’re still working on.

Jasmin

Yes. So I, I was doing that in Chicago for months, and then I took a quick road trip with a friend to help her drive out to Montana. I’m very bold when I have my camera in my hand. If I’m not, then I do not just talk to strangers like this. But when I have my camera, I can talk to strangers. And I started doing that.

I photographed some guys on motorcycles in the Badlands. And I realized like, wow, I mean, these guys on the motorcycles had just like, they seem like such tough guys. And, you know, I was a little intimidated going up to them. And they were the nicest sweetest guys and like one of them we’re like Facebook friends now. They were so encouraging of my work and just, I’m like, you know, I wouldn’t have ever talked to these guys otherwise and I’m so glad I did.

And then I kept doing that on this road trip and I came back to Chicago and I thought, okay, this is what I need to do. I need to just go out and start talking to more people all over the U.S. because we don’t talk to people outside of our bubble as much as we should. So, I just rented a minivan ‘cause I thought maybe I will sometimes sleep in this van if I need to, because I don’t want to spend a ton of money. But I rented a minivan and I headed west.

I had been reading about the farm security administration projects from the 1920s-30s. And one of the taglines said it was to introduce America to Americans. So the government had sent out all these photographers to introduce America to Americans. And that just really stuck with me, that line. And I was thinking about this project, it wasn’t fully formed, but I just knew I just wanted to go out and start photographing people that I meet as I’m driving around. And then it hit that. I was like, I think we all need a re-introduction. So that’s how Re-introducing America was kind of born.

Laura

I love that name for your project. Cause it’s, it’s not just reintroducing like pandemic and post pandemic America, but was it also kind of a reintroduction for you?

Jasmin

Oh, for sure. I mean, I had, I traveled quite a bit. I’ve done quite a few road trips around the U S but there’s a large chunks of the U.S. that I haven’t spent much time. There’s so many different aspects of the U.S. and different parts, so it’s good to explore. And I’ve been doing that and I’ve just been driving around and I’ve been doing that since August.

So, then I started to go down the van life wormhole on YouTube, which is pretty insane… But then it was really hard to find an actual van to buy because so many people were buying vans. So, I ended up finding one that fit what I wanted. I got a 2020 Ford transit all-wheel drive.

I had been watching so many videos to kind of get a good idea of what I wanted. And I really wanted something that felt like my home and was fully functional. It had a desk. It’s a desk slash kitchen table slash everything space. So, I have a bed, I have a shower. My bed is really comfy and cozy. I’m excited to kind of really get out and drive around. I’ve only had her for about two months now. So…

Laura

Where have you taken Dory?

Jasmin

Well I, I picked her up and then I went to Madison, Wisconsin, which is where I use as my home address, because it’s my brother’s house – because you need an address – and where I have some stuff stored and kind of set her up there. Then went back to Chicago to my storage unit and saw some friends and got the final things there. And then I headed out towards Portland, Oregon, which is where I am now. But I stayed in an alpaca farm one of the nights on the way.

Laura

That sounds cool!

Jasmin

Glorious. It was just so I love those animals so much. And they were just roaming around, right…. They were like coming up to the door. It was so great. And you could just do weird wacky stuff like that. There are apps and there are memberships that you can have that you can just kind of find and if they have parking available, you know, it’s like for one night.

Laura

Yeah. I feel like I saw on Instagram, you’ve been to a few national parks and hung out there in your van.

Jasmin

I was outside of Arches National Park. I parked in this great spot there, where I woke up in the morning, open the van door and there was a hot air balloon. It was so perfect. It was like this amazing light. And I just grabbed my camera with the long lens, right from the door, and just stood in my door in my home and got this, you know, picture I really like. And I was just like, oh my God, I live in my van. This is wonderful. I’m so excited.

Laura

It’s so cool.

Jasmin

Yeah. And then I parked outside of Glacier National Park. I had gone on some hikes, but then parked outside of it.

Laura

So Jasmin, a van like this costs a bit of money, I imagine. What was your financial situation going into this?

Jasmin

It wasn’t great. I had been working for all those years in Chicago and I made sure before I was, I sold everything and went nomadic that I was debt-free. I had some savings, like just to get me going and started on this, but then I had work coming. Luckily living abroad was, it was fairly inexpensive. I was living in cheaper places. But I hadn’t gotten to the point where I was really like making money. I was kind of just getting by and I was even like a little bit behind. I had kind of accumulated a tiny bit of debt before coming back. But I was so excited because like I was going into like so much work in March, April, May, June of 2020 that I was like, I’m going to pay everything off. I’m going to be great. And then that went away and so I was, and then I had no work and then I had also had my identity stolen for my unemployment. So I didn’t have that as an option last summer, which was really….. It would have been my first…..

Laura

So, wait, just to be clear, someone stole your identity just to get your unemployment?

Jasmin

Yeah. It was solely with the unemployment and it was, it happened in November of 2019. And I caught it, like I found, I saw something that like triggered it and I canceled it. But they hadn’t erased my information out of the system. So for the first time in my life, I was going to go on unemployment at the end of March, 2020, when it was an option for freelancers to start, you know, trying to put in for it and I couldn’t log in because my social had already been used. It took until the end of September, 2020 for me to finally break through that system.

Yeah. So it was a, it was a pretty stressful time. So I, you know, flexed my credit card even more which was scary. But, you know, in that it was so crazy, you know, it wasn’t like I was just enjoying life. I just needed to like eat and stuff. Did some portraits here and there. But I did have a base of savings I had saved and I had… When I was in Chicago a retirement account for myself that I had built and I was able to pull from that a little bit because I think there was no penalty for pulling early last year. I have a financial planner that he offered that advice.

And then also it’s going on almost six years now, my father passed away and he had left a little bit of money that I really hadn’t intended on touching. But I needed a place to live and I needed this van. So, I was able to use the money he had left to kind of pay for the build. I don’t know. He probably would have thought that was insane but…. I was able to finance the van part of it. So I’m paying like a car payment. And then I used that money from my dad to pay the builder to make it a home.

Laura

You said you have a car payment. So, is it basically equal to maybe what you’d pay in rent somewhere?

Jasmin

Yes, totally. It’s like 900 a month. So this is a house and a car though, too. So it’s like all in one, so it’s what I’d pay for rent, but it’s also my vehicle. So basically gas money is my utilities but beyond that, I have no other and my phone, you know, phone and data hotspot thing and those are my expenses.

Laura

How do you get work when you’re not sure where you’re going to be? So do you kind of email editors and say like, I’m thinking of going to this place and if you want me to work, then I’ll definitely go there. Or do you just drive where you want to go and then figure out work from there?

Jasmin

That’s an excellent question. I was just starting to get the hang of it when I was international. You know, I had, would put feelers out to people saying like, I think I’m going to be, you know, when I was doing the international thing, I’d be like, I think I’m going to be in the, in Europe. But that’s also like, could mean, you know, north Africa or, you know, all of these spaces I’m going to be in that general area. What do you think? Or I’m going to be in South America. And you know, things were, that was starting to finally make sense for what I had scheduled.

And then as far as now in the van, I’m also getting, hang the hang of it. I’m getting to work on this project right now with my friend, which I can’t really talk about too much, but it’s very exciting. So, I’ve been doing that. That’s in Laramie, Wyoming. So, I’ve been now in Laramie for two trips. And then coming up, I’ve been I’m actually flying to Operation Smile, reached out to me. And they asked if I was interested in doing an international mission. So I fly out to Guatemala tomorrow night. My van needs to get a couple of repairs done, it’s brand new, but there were some things that weren’t finished. So I’m dropping it off with the person who’s going to finish it outside of Portland. And then I’m flying to Guatemala. And while my home is being repaired, it’s so perfect. I’ll be elsewhere. I’m very excited with how this kind of worked out.

And then after that I have, it’s just kind of piecing together. Something just came in yesterday with a client from Chicago, asking if I could be around in August. The thing in Laramie, I’m going to be going back in July after I, after I get back from Guatemala. And then I’m meeting some climate scientists in the Wind River Range in Wyoming at the later part of July. So things are just kind of falling into place.

So I think maybe heading east starting in August might be the way for me to go and then maybe head all the way up to the far Northeast up to Maine and kind of just going to places where it works, like the best temperature for my, for living in a van. I found that a hundred degrees is not ideal. If you want to park and get work done at 3:00 PM and it’s full sun and a hundred degrees, like I’m just, I’m not going to be productive. I’m just going to sit and sweat. So ….

Laura

Yeah, I hadn’t thought about that. That’s so true.

Jasmin

Yeah. I hadn’t really thought it out fully either, but I very quickly learned just this week that that doesn’t work. So I think just moving with what feels like the best weather is going to be a, an important part of how I move around. And I haven’t been producing as much for my project Reintroducing America. But I’m hoping to get back to that once I have a little more freer schedule and can move around. But again, I have to go where clients are actually going to pay me because Reintroducing America is just my own personal project and I love it, but it doesn’t at this point generate any income.

Laura

Right. When you started that, you weren’t thinking financially at all.

Jasmin

Yeah. It was really, truly to cope. It was a coping mechanism for me for the pandemic. And I love that people really are responding to it… I mean, I walk up to strangers and I’ve done over 80 now since August. Every single person seems to want to talk and is open to the idea of being photographed, sharing a little bit about their life.

And often, you know, I keep in contact with them after I send them a photo like text or email or not usually prints though. I did deliver prints to this old blues artist that I met in Memphis, Sam “Black Smoke” Wiggins. He was so cool. We talked for over an hour and a half, so interesting. He was just the greatest guy and, you know, but he didn’t have a phone to text or email or anything. So I had his phone number and then I ended up going back through Memphis on my way to Texas last fall. And so I made prints. And so I called him when I was going through Memphis and I say, Hey, I have some prints. So I like hand delivered them to him. And he couldn’t… He was so tickled. He couldn’t believe that I hand delivered the prints to him. But he was just so sweet that I just wanted him to have them.

Laura

He’s like, you just drove all around the country and came back just to give me these prints? WOW.

Jasmin

Yeah. He, he couldn’t believe it, but it was, I, and we only talked for five minutes that a time cause I just was kind of going through.

Laura

Well, what do you think you’re going to do with this project? Are you going to publish it? Are you going to make a book? What do you think?

Jasmin

I don’t know. I would love to make it a book. I would also see it as an exhibit, because I’m also…. I talk to the people and I get their stories. I’m not a writer. It is definitely a struggle for me. But I am curious and I ask a lot of questions and so I write little stories about the people. It’s also part travelogue for me. So sometimes I write a little bit about how I got to where I was to meet them that day. But I feel like it would serve well as an exhibit because it is kind of all over.

Jasmin

Work, thankfully, really seems to be kind of coming back. I’m hoping I can continue to do work for clients, work on this project I’m working on and then continue with Reintroducing but with a little less pressure about the fact that I’m not monetizing it. I honestly don’t know if I want to monetize it that much. I, I was looking to see if I could get a sponsor to keep doing the project kind of full-time, you know, and I was trying to figure out like who… I was like, what if Ford would want to sponsor this? I’m driving a Ford Transit.

Jasmin

But then, I feel really protective of this project and really that I don’t want there to be any kind of money that’s going to kind of dirty it or make it like where I have to make it more official. I really just like the serendipity of how I’ve been able to do it. But that’s because I’ve been making no money and no one is telling me what to do, which … I would love to have some backing because Dory, my van, she’s real thirsty. It gets expensive.

Laura:

Like how much do you have to put in her?

Jasmin

The tank is 30 gallons. And so it’s starting to get to be like $85 fills. Now that I’m in the van, I need to kind of push for that a little bit more. I did purposely buy a Ford because of the project. A very popular van that people use or they get the sprinters, which is Mercedes. And I thought, I can’t drive a Mercedes around the U.S. doing a project called Reintroducing America. I need to drive a Ford. I don’t want the Mercedes for that very reason.

Laura

So now that you have your van, what is the status of your international career dreams?

Jasmin

I don’t know. I mean, I get to go to Guatemala. I fly out tomorrow night and I’ll be there on Thursday. I am curious to see how that will be and how that will feel to work again. I feel like I want to be really respectful of the fact that most of the rest of the world hasn’t been vaccinated and, and won’t be able to, so it feels a little…. still feel a little bit of guilt about that. But you know, if it’s for a client and you know, it’s my photos that help raise money for the organization and that’s what they need. So that feels good.

I feel like I’ve got another year of traveling around in the van to really give it a fair shake on this life. But then maybe I just go south. Dreams, like pipe dreams upon all dreams, is to make it to Patagonia.

Laura

It’s great to have dreams like this and you know, I feel like a lot of people have a dream to kind of live the life you’re living now. But is it as wonderful as it looks like on your Instagram? It’s almost like setting it up. It’s like, no, of course not. But like what, like what is it really like?

Jasmin

It is wonderful at some moments. I’m just like, I am so happy and like, like, I can’t believe like you got to pinch yourself. You’re like, I can’t believe this is what I get to do.

And then sometimes it’s really hard. So I was mentioning the hundred degrees. I was finishing up the two weeks in Laramie and I really needed to get some work done and sent off on Sunday. I really wanted to work on it Sunday night/Monday, because now I’m going to be heading to Guatemala. So, I don’t want to have that kind of over my head to do. And I was really tired on Sunday. And so I was like, I don’t want to drive that much, but it was like, it was starting to get, like I saw on my car, it was like 103 was the highest that I drove through.

And it was just really hot. And I had a place in mind that I was going to stop and there’s no way I could stop there because getting there at three would have been just miserable. I do have AC in the van, but that was one thing that wasn’t… the builder didn’t connect…

Laura

Wait, so your AC doesn’t work at all?

Jasmin

No, the AC when I’m driving works. But I do have an AC unit that will work when I’m parked. I won’t be able to run it like all day on, you know, without plugging into a RV park. But I can use it for like two hours which feels fine to me. I’m not a big AC person. But it would be good like in the heat of the day to be able to like, kind of regulate the temperature a little bit.

So I ended up – and I’m a little bit embarrassed about this, like, I don’t know why I’m embarrassed – but I just feel like you have this thing you’re like, I live in a van. And so I should just live in the van and like make do. But I ended up driving for a while and then I just found a cheap I used points to stay at a Hampton Inn in random Pendleton, Oregon, because I really needed to work.

I actually slept really poorly. I prefer sleeping in the van. I like my bed here. But that was like a thing that I think I hadn’t thought about is the conditions for a day of editing. It’s like great for going out and photographing or going to places or hiking or just like lounging and being like a van life person. But it’s not necessarily always great. Climate is incredibly important, I think is what I’m realizing and if you’re not in the right climate, then it’s hard. So I think the hardest thing is just figuring out how to live in my van, maintain the van, but also produce at the rate that I want and need to produce. Yeah.

Laura

It sounds like with anything, there are pros and cons and you’re making it work. So you’re making it work for you and your career. And what about financially? Is this lifestyle working for you?

Jasmin

Um, TBD. I hope so. The project I’m working on that will, hopefully I’ll be able to talk to you about it eventually is great and is…. It’s so nice to be able to send off invoices and to work. So that has like, kind of allowed me to breathe. I’m back to a zero credit card.

Laura

Oh, so you’re out of debt now?

Jasmin

Yeah, except for now the van itself. So the car payments on the van. Um, but no more, no more credit card, which is how I like it to be. So if, if things kind of continue as they are now, it will, it will make sense and it will become financially viable.

When I lived in Chicago, I was contributing to a retirement account pretty aggressively. I have not contributed to the account in the last two years and have actually taken from it when I didn’t work at all last year. So I think a goal for me is to get to the point where I can kind of make this work and then actually start saving again. That would just feel… Right now, I feel like I’m just kind of like keeping up. Much earlier and actually for most of my adult life until really the last five years I had struggled with credit card debt. So it’s something I’ve always really struggled with and not always had a good handle on.

Laura

What is the best financial decision you think you’ve ever made?

Jasmin

I think being debt free is the best decision. Zero debt.

And also I, I don’t know if it was the best financial decision, but I take risks when I feel like I can. So I, I took the risk to become the international nomad because that’s what I wanted to do. And it was probably not a great financial decision in the moment. Cause it took a little while to ramp up to what was going to make it a financially sound for me. But for me creatively, and as a person, I was in a happy place doing it. Again, COVID screwed that up, but it was about to become financially viable. And then doing this.

So this van allows me to be me and allows me to move and be nomadic. And again, it was probably, if you look at it on paper, it’s maybe kind of a stupid financial decision to put this money into a house that deteriorates as you add miles to it. But I’m happy and I love it. And if things keep going on the trajectory they are right now it will make sense and, and I’ll get to create and, and work and be me and then it’ll be worth it. So I think for me, because it’s just me, I don’t have to worry about supporting anyone, I can take those risks that others might not.

Laura

Well, and you’re living your values. That’s exactly what it sounds like. You said, maybe it’s not the best financial decision to put all this money into a van, but you value independence, you value being able to get out and meet new people. And so that’s where you put your money. For other people, they might not value that. And that’s fine. It’s different for everyone. That’s why personal finances are so personal.

Jasmin

Right. Right. I mean, it just makes so much sense for me. But I like living in this like… Small spaces seem to really suit me. I feel completely okay with the tiny, tiny space that this is, um. Last night parked in this driveway have to really be a really good. And I just was like, wow, this fan is like, it feels pretty big. Like, I feel really at home, like that’s a crazy thought to think that this feels big, but I was like, I bet I could probably make it. I’d… Probably be the next van, if I were to get another van, I could be like, I could go with a smaller one.

Laura

Well, Jasmin, thank you so much for sharing your stories and telling us about your van life as a creative photographer. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me.

Jasmin

Thank you. Thanks for having me and thinking of me. And even though I feel a little nervous about finances I appreciate you listening.