SHOW NOTES
Today on the show, Alyssa Schukar talks about building her freelance career in a thoughtful way so that she’s on solid financial footing – something that helped her last year when she was hit by a rubber bullet while photographing protests in Wisconsin after the shooting of Jacob Blake. The injury kept her out of work for months. Alyssa is a photojournalist originally from Nebraska, now living in Washington, D.C. She’s also a co-founder of Prism Photo Workshop, which supports young photographers of diverse backgrounds to tell stories of underrepresented people and communities with dignity.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE
Alyssa Schukar’s website
Alyssa’s Instagram feed
Prism Photo Workshop

MUSIC CREDITS
Cinematic Orchestra Cello Loop by Wanderexplore
Happy Upbeat Cello by Audiokraken
Blanks by Sound of Picture
Your Call by Kevin MacLeod with a Creative Commons License
Spring Solstice by Sound of Picture
Call Now by Sound of Picture
Ultraviolet by Sound of Picture

FULL TRANSCRIPT from 01:10

Laura

Hi, Alyssa. Thanks so much for coming on the show today.

Alyssa

It’s great to be here. Thank you for, creating this space.

Laura

Yeah, no problem. So why don’t we just jump right into these questions. First, I’d like to know how you came to be a professional photographer and who helped you along the way?

Alyssa

Yeah, I got my start, as I think many people did, taking pictures of my pets growing up as well as flowers in my backyard with my dad’s old, Pentax film camera. And then when I got into college, I started to realize that what I actually love about photography is the opportunity to meet people. And so, as I went through the university had opportunities to do internships around the country.

I also had a ton of help from local photographers. I’m originally from Nebraska, which is a large state with few people. So I did a couple of internships in college and then ended up working full time for a while at the Omaha world Herald, which is where I had also interned. And then kind of went from there into freelance and in, based in DC these days, trying to survive the photography of politics and kind of carve my way out here, too.

Laura

Now I know you did quite a few internships on your way to where you are now. And so just for people out there who are starting out and they think, “Oh my gosh, Alyssa, she’s covering politics in DC. That’s so amazing. She just like skyrocketed to this position.” Can you talk a little bit about these internships, including one you did at my hometown paper in Newport News, Virginia. I don’t know if that’s where you lived, but that’s where the paper is based.

Alyssa

I did, I lived in Newport news with a copy editor at the paper, which was actually a great experience. It sort of built a community for me right away. I do, I remember the experience fondly, although I, coming from Nebraska was not quite ready for the traffic that happens.

Laura

Oh, yeah. It’s bad there. You’re on a peninsula and not many ways to go.

Alyssa

No, for sure. It was, it was great for me. In many ways I felt like I wasn’t totally prepared, but so often I wasn’t totally prepared for that internship, but so often getting your foot in the door is really the first step. And then you, like, you base it, you step up to it because again, the older photographers help you. And I think that’s one of the biggest questions I get from young photographers is how do I get my footing under me?

And I think one of the most important things to remember is that you look at a photographer and you see some levels of success, you see them doing assignment work that you would like to do. And it seems like it kind of just happened for them. But I think one of the beautiful things about this industry is that everyone’s path looks differently. You, you get opportunities and you, you go in, in that direction and you never quite know where you’re going to end up because it’s such a unique, journey. And I think that it’s hard sometimes to feel like you’re not quite getting to where you want to be.

But for those young photographers who maybe feel a little bit discouraged, especially during the pandemic, when it feels like everything is just ground to a halt it’s a matter of finding one step after another one opportunity after another, that will make you a better photographer and a more informed citizen of the world.

Laura

Yeah, that’s really good advice. Now, you mentioned that you were working on staff at a newspaper, I think in Nebraska. And then you went freelance. What made you decide to go freelance and kind of what gave you the courage or the impetus to run your own business?

Alyssa

Yeah, that’s a good question. So I’ll be honest and say that I probably would never have gone freelance. If I weren’t tethered to a partner with a full-time job. And so my partner, at the time got a job at, we were both working at the Omaha paper because, you know, journalists are always dating each other. And, he got a job at the Chicago Tribune. And so we had this big decision to move forward or to stay behind, you know, and it was really hard, to leave that position because I felt like I was very comfortable there and I could continue to do good work there, but there was also this desire to see what kind of opportunities exist outside of, outside of Omaha.

I honestly feel like I hit Chicago at a really good time. It was sort of dumb luck, but it was at this moment when newspaper staffs were getting smaller and more, national publications were re relying on freelancers. And so that sort, I sort of hit that curve at the right moment and was able to build a successful freelance career there. But, you know, one of the things that I always try to share with photographers is that it took me like a solid two years before I was really established. And that was scary because in many ways I thought like probably it was the end of my photography career. And again, I have had many moments where I’ve been like, “I just don’t know if I can continue to do this.”

And that’s why it’s so much so important for us to have a good, solid financial footing. One of the things that I did when I started, freelance was think about how much money I wanted to make a week. One of my first goals was to make 500 a week. And so that meant that if a $200 assignment came in, I would take it because if I got three of those assignments, then I would have had met my goal. But as I was doing freelance longer, you know, it went up to seven 50 and then it went up to a thousand. When I was at a thousand a week for my goal, it didn’t make sense to take those $200 assignments anymore. Cause I knew like a $600 assignment would come in as soon as I took the $200 one.

Your goal as a freelancer is to get to this place where you’re sort of striking an equilibrium with the kind of work you want to do and the kind of work that pays the bills. I am not a big fan of photographing weddings but I did that for the first several years of freelance in Chicago. I did event photography. I’ll still do event photography. You know, it’s about sort of serving the long-term needs to have a successful business while hopefully still finding work that feeds your soul. So, it is about, it’s almost like self-care, but financial, you know, setting these goals, having, having a little bit more, wiggle room should something happen where you’re not able to work for a while.

Laura

Well, you really sound like, you know what you’re doing with your business. So what did you learn about personal finances and about running a business when you were growing up and then how did those lessons help you or not help you when you became a freelance photographer?

Alyssa

Yeah. My dad always, really encouraged us, my bro, my brothers and me to be mindful of our, our finances and to live within our means. I mean, I remember my first job was at age 14, I was a, detasseler in a cornfield. This is very Nebraska – wherein you walked through the corn field and you pull out the tassels, which is a whole, a whole very traditional Midwest, summer job.  

Laura

So how much did you make from that corn tasseling job? And then what was it that he actually taught you to do with that money you earned?

Alyssa

It paid really well. I actually want to say it was $15 an hour, which as a 14 year old is an ungodly amount of money. Yeah. Cause it’s incredibly difficult. You have to get up at like three in the morning and like hop on a bus and ride for hours to the cornfield in the middle of Nebraska. And so then the lesson was to save that money, you know, use it where I needed it, but also to… That money didn’t necessarily go towards my first camera, but you know, at 16 I got a job working at Panera Bread and that money went towards my first camera.

As a business owner, I have to think about like making sure I have the right kind of equipment that’s not wildly outdated. And so thinking about setting aside that money as I go along, and sort of preparing for the needs that will pop up, like if If a computer goes down, which happens like every few years, because we are so hard on our computers as photographers, if I’m not able to replace a piece of equipment, I can’t do my job. And so again, it’s about having discipline in that, in that regard.

When I did go freelance, I got connected with a really good accountant. I cannot, stress for freelancers, the importance of having good book bookkeeping, and also having the accountant who will, make sure everything is correct. It’s expensive, but it’s also something, again that will, that will, feed into your longevity. It will allow finances to kind of be a background thing.

Laura

Well, we should talk a little bit about this workshop you started, it’s called Prism Photo Workshop, and it’s actually how I found you and thought you would be a great guest for this podcast because you ran, you, you did a presentation at last year’s workshop, all about best business practices. And when I heard you speak, I was like, “Oh my gosh, this person needs to come on my podcast. I hope she’ll say yes, when I asked her one day.” So can you talk a little bit about why you decided that this is the thing you’re talking about and pushing at your workshop?

Alyssa

Yeah, absolutely. So, I’ll step back a little bit and talk about why we wanted to start the, some photography, friends, Michelle Kanaar, and Michael Zajakowski back in Chicago. We got together and we talked about how one of the biggest issues that we’re seeing with young photographers, especially photographers of color is that they’re not being given the opportunities to build a sustainable career in their first five years.

And so while we, while at Prism, we want to offer them inspiration – you know, I think that’s a really important part of your development as a photographer – we also wanted to get them tools and get tools in their hands so that they could survive the first five years of their careers, which I think are often the most difficult. That desire came from my never having been taught that in a formal way.  

Laura

I’m like you, I went to journalism school and those classes weren’t even offered and it didn’t even seem like they thought it would be necessary for us.

Alyssa

So really, Prism Photo Workshop is about addressing that and trying to create this community that becomes more supportive of each other. And that’s one thing I talk about in the presentation is like helping other photographers because when you help other photographers, you’re actually helping yourself. Even if it feels like their competition, you know, if you aren’t having conversations about what fair day rates are, then everybody’s going to do the $200 assignment because it’s work and it’s immediate money. I think that we, by joining forces and educating each other and uplifting this next generation of photographers have a, more of a fighting chance of building something sustainable long-term.

Laura

Yeah. I really think it’s important for people to talk about these things together. Photography is a very competitive industry, but it bothers me when people aren’t willing to help each other a bit. So, how have you managed financially or not with this recent work injury you had? So you were covering protests last summer in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and you got hit by a rubber bullet and this has kept you out of the field for a little bit. How, how did you keep going financially and how are you doing?

Alyssa

I’m doing okay last week I had what will probably be, probably be my last physical therapy appointment. I can make a fist again, which I wasn’t able to do for a long time. I got hit in the base of my left index finger, which effectively crushed the bone there. And so I had to have multiple surgeries in order to pull it back together and then to open up my tendons cause everything was basically locked up. But I feel overall pretty grateful that I’m doing as well as I am. It was a difficult thing.

I was on assignment for the New York times. And thankfully that’s a publication that takes care of freelancers when they get injured. I didn’t totally know what would happen financially with them. So, obviously like that made a big difference to have financial help from them, but it took a while to get that done. And so I, you know, I had to lean on my husband’s full-time job on his salary, on his health insurance. The bill for all of my procedures, it’s probably around 60 grand at this point. Obviously, I’ve not paid that much, but I’ve paid a handsome chunk of money as well.

I have reason to believe that, it was, intentional that I got hit with the rubber bullet. At least three other journalists got hit that night as well and you know, we’re kind of getting to this point where journalists are a lot more aware of the dangers, especially after January 6th at the Capitol. We’re becoming a little bit more aware of how we’re part of the calculus.

And so I think, you know, I’m grateful that I was able to survive financially during this period, but it is also something that will probably make me hesitate on certain aside to take certain assignments going into the future. I’m lucky because of my husband’s work. I’m lucky because I have a little bit of money put away that can kind of float us for a while. A lot of people recommend like six to nine months of savings that you can just live off of.

I know that that’s not reality for everybody, and I feel super lucky to have been able to be in that position. but it’s also been a good reminder of why it’s important to have passive income. So, you know, I’ve been doing a lot of, licensing when I’m able to, I’ve been doing a lot more copyright infringement actions.

Laura

What does that mean? Can you walk through what it means to actually like file a copyright infringement? I don’t know — is it a case, a document? And then how much are you getting?

Alyssa

Yeah, so I work with this, this law firm called Higby and Associates, and they have this app that they’ve created that will actually search for your images, the images that you submit to them, and we’ll find where your images are being infringed around the internet. And then they will actually reach out to those, websites and we’ll go through all of the headache of, negotiating money or negotiating the settlement from them.

There’s always a chance that it would go to an actual lawsuit, but usually it gets settled well before then because people like either caught red handed most of the time, it kind of like can’t do much about it. The law firm gets about half of the money. But we’ve had a couple of settlements for three grand, some smaller ones as well.

I’d really encourage people who are listening to look into getting their work copyrighted, within the three-month window, especially, I mean, obviously in the United States.

Alyssa

So, there is a common misconception that as soon as you take a photograph, the copyright is set and you don’t have to worry about anything, especially infringements. While it’s true that as soon as you make the image, you do have a copyright – unless you’ve signed a work for hire contract – if you don’t register that copyright within three months of either making the picture or publishing the picture, then you have less of a claim to how much of how much money you can make on an infringement. And if you didn’t register the copyright at all, there’s a decent chance that you just can’t make anything off of it because people will argue all the way through that. And so it’s incredibly frustrating cause it’s like, well, I did make the image. I do own the rights to it, but in the eyes of the law, it’s just so much cleaner if you get that done right away.

Laura

Thank you for explaining that Alyssa. Now, earlier you were talking about how, if you didn’t have your partner’s income and your health insurance, it would have been a lot harder to get through this work injury that you had. You did mention you have enough money saved, so that could float you for a little bit, but, you know, do you think you would be freelancing without your partner and could you like support yourself without having your partner?

Alyssa

So, I had said earlier that I wouldn’t have gone freelance without a partner with a full-time job. The other day he and I were talking like that he could go freelance if I had a job, but there’s like no way that we would feel comfortable both being freelance. And so, my gut reaction is no, I wouldn’t be freelance if not for my partner. But you know, maybe that’s not entirely true.

I do love freelance. I do love the opportunities. It gives me the variety is wonderful. I can say no to things if I don’t want to do it. But I just, I do feel like realistically, and I want to be honest, especially with young photographers, that like this industry can be incredibly exploitative and it’s hard to guarantee your future in the work.

And so, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been doing things to essentially create less risk for myself. You know, one of the things that concerns me is I have, like, really just two clients that I work for most of the time and while they’re wonderful clients and I’m incredibly grateful for them, if something changes at either of those places like that could be, that could be catastrophic financially for my business.

I’ve been doing a lot more writing. I’m doing some video as well. I’ve been doing more editing, you know, that kind of thing, but I think, yeah, I think if he didn’t have a full-time job, I’d probably try to find a full-time job. I just don’t have faith in the industry long-term to be sustainable, which is really a shame but you know, healthcare, especially after my injury has become something that I’m way more concerned about.  

Laura

Yeah. I mean the U.S. healthcare system it’s… I think it’s really unfortunate. I could probably do a whole podcast just about that, but I think it really limits people’s willingness to take chances or maybe they take way bigger chances with their health than they should because they’re young and they assume they’re going to be okay. But as happened with you, I mean, accidents can happen.

Alyssa

Yep. Yeah. And I think, and there’s no, again, like there’s no way to protect against it and there’s no way to guarantee that you’ll always be okay financially, but there are active steps you can make to put yourself in a better position, like having savings and, diversifying your clientele, you know, all of those things help, but you also want to have your eyes open.  

Laura

Yeah, definitely. What is your number one money concern that keeps you up at night?

Alyssa

Well, I sound like a broken record, but catastrophic injury. Um,

Laura

Yeah, understandable.

Alyssa

 It’s like, you save and you try to get into a position where you have done what you can to build a sense of security. And then you also have to understand, like there are forces outside of your control and you sort of have to let it go too. I think one of the best ways to have a better sense of control is to talk to, you know, a financial advisor, talk to people who you think are good with money. Get advice from others, because there’s no one right way to do it.

Laura

One thing that I’ve found with a lot of freelancers and not just in the photography world, but just in general, is that people are not thinking about retirement or saving for retirement. But they know it’s something they should think about and should save for. So, I’d love to find out your thoughts about retirement and how you’re planning for it or not.

Alyssa

Yeah. So my dad introduced me to a financial planner about a decade ago. And so, you know, when I had the staff job, I would sock away a little bit of money. Oh man, I made so little money there. What money I did make, I would sock away and put toward a 401k. And then that kind of just created a habit where it’s like, okay, every year I want to contribute to a Roth IRA. And now that I have an LLC S Corp, I contribute to an SEP, which is similar to the Roth IRA, you know, it’s like, Oh, it’s like at the beginning of the year, I know this expense is coming. So I just kind of like start to put the money to the side.  

Laura

Great. And I just want to define the Roth IRA and the SEP IRA, as you were saying. So, they’re both retirement savings vehicles and a Roth, you can put in a certain amount of money each year, and then when you take the money out at retirement, you don’t pay taxes on it. And for the SEP IRA, you can, it’s called, it’s a, self-employed, sorry, a simplified employee pension IRA. And this is for people who own their own companies or even self-employed people. And for 2021, you can contribute up to 25% of your compensation or $58,000, whichever is whichever is more.

Alyssa

No, it’s super helpful. I hadn’t really like thought about what they are for a while either, so I appreciate it. You know, it’s like it’s lower taxed money. It obviously can make a really big difference.

Laura

And as you said, starting earlier is important. Like starting when you’re younger to save money for retirement is important because you can take advantage of compound interest, this magical way of, you know, earning more and more interest on your, on your investments, the longer you hold on to them.

Alyssa

The bummer is you just don’t make any money in your twenties.

Laura

I know that’s the thing, you know, sometimes… Sometimes these, like financial planners or some of these financial gurus, they tell you like, well, try to max out your Roth IRA, 6,000 a year. And you’re like 6,000 a year is like 20% of my salary before I pay taxes. So what am I, how is that supposed to work?

Alyssa

That’s amazing. Yeah, that actually is, that was 20% of my salary starting out. So….

Laura

Oh, let’s see. $6,000 was actually 25% of my salary when I started out before taxes, before taxes and I had to pay my school loan. I lived in DC. I had to pay my rent transportation. It was insane. How was I going to save $6,000 a year?

Alyssa

Seriously. This is why people told us not to go into the industry.

Laura

I know, I know. The sad thing is, so, I mean, I had my first job out of college in journalism in 1998. And in 2010, I was teaching a class at GW and a couple of the students were graduating and they, they got job offers for the same amount of money that I had made when I started out 1998. And I just thought, Oh my God, how are you going to do this? Because, you know, they had school loans. One of them was becoming a photo journalist. Someone was going into TV news. You don’t make that much money. I’m sure. I don’t know. It was just so depressing.

Alyssa

It also speaks to one of the bigger issues in the industry with why so many photographers come from middle income and upper income families is that like you can afford to not make money. You can pay for school straight up. It’s troubling because it’s almost like a pay for play. And I don’t think that’s necessarily being addressed yet. Hopefully it will, but it’s a big part of the struggle

Laura

It’s so, yeah, it was like that way when I was in school too, and I could never take an unpaid internship. There were plenty of other kids who could, but I couldn’t.

Alyssa

Yeah. It’s… it makes it harder to then to find the energy, to work on the stuff that you want to. And that, again, that’s like part of the hard thing right now with the lack of opportunity for young photographers, it’s possible, but it’s just, it’s better to have your eyes open and to know that kind of hustle that it’s going to require.

We’re social beings. I think a lot of us are attracted to the work because we have an opportunity to make other’s lives better. I think sometimes like social media and Instagram, you know, specifically makes us feel like we need to be in competition for likes, but if we are able to build something bigger than that, build something, build more of a community. I think it’s a path forward in a path towards a more equitable industry.

Laura

Thank you so much, Alyssa. I’m really glad that you agreed to be on the show and I hope you continue to heal with your hand and you have some amazing assignments this year.

Alyssa

Thank you. I appreciate it. And thanks so much for putting this together. I think these are really important conversations.